You will not believe this.
The person who had Yartzeit last week had it again this week. Apparently, his parents passed on relatively close to each other. I was not aware of this, and thought that he was just at the Amud.
Since I never said anything last time, this time was even worse, but at least I got a good view of what a Rov is supposed to be. Here are the details.
The Rov was davening slower than the Tzibbur, and did not want to hold up the minyan, so at Shema, he motioned the, I can't even call him a Shliach Tzibbur or Chazzan, we shall call him the Davener, to go ahead.
The minyan started Shemone Esrai a full TWO MINUTES before the Rov. The Rov, still not wanting to hold up the minyan, davened faster than usual. However, the Davener WAS STILL NOT DONE with his Shemone Esrai after six and one half minutes, while the Rov finished HIS shemone Esrai faster. So we had to wait for the Davener to finally finish his Tefilla, which took another 1/2 a minute.
Needless to say, I was quite upset with the whole scenario, and was going to speak to the Davener. Even though the conversation might have destroyed my relationship with him, I felt that for Chovod HaRav I really had no choice.
(I also felt I had no choice because over Shabbos, I was away, and the Ovel there davened longer than the Rov, and I said to my host that someone should talk to him and tell him how wrong he is, so I didn't want to be a hypocrite in my own shul)
However, before I spoke to this guy, I decided to speak to the Rov first. He informed me that in fact, the Davener DID have Yartzeit for a parent, and that it doesn't happen that often ( that people daven longer, not him having Yartzeit, which only happens twice a year), and that in this situation, it would be best if I just let in ride and not say anything.
I acquiesced to the wishes of the Rov, and have let the matter drop ( in shul, not here, though). But what I will take away from this whole story is that this Rov (1) understands that the Tzibbur is an entity that must be taken into account during davening. (2) the Rov, with all his Kavana, is ALWAYS cognizant of the needs of the Tzibbur, and his position as the rightful most important person in the room, (3) That he is not makpid on his kovod, which is appropriate for a Talmud Chachom, but still incumbent upon us to be makpid for him, and (4) he is a true Ohaiv Sholom and does not want, or to be the cause of, makloches in his shul.
Many others can learn from him, Baal Habatim, certainly Baalei Tefilla, and Rabbonim as well.
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As I was reading this post I was thinking "the guy has Yartzheit twice a year, leave it alone." But further than what the Rov said, You really do not know a person until you walked in his shoes. So yes, he could be extra cognizant of the Tzibbur and the Rov, but he could also have an issue or a few issues going on his life, and he has yartzheit, and it is possible that he got lost in his davening, which is really what you want from a shliach Tzibbur. If you have someone leading the davening who is coming to Hashem with a full heart knowing that he can beseech him and be answered how lucky YOU are to have this man as a Shaliach!!
ReplyDeleteSo granted you may not want this at davening every morning, but if you really think about it, you do. But more importantly, the emotion tied up with having yartzheit for a parent, and davening for the Amod twice a year cannot be negated. I think you should reconsider your harsh stance on Yartzheit daveners who take a few minutes too long, and not confuse your impatience with "Kovod Harav."
Because as your Rov knows, Kovod is not only afforded to those in the front of the shul, but the little yid who has to come forth and daven twice a year.
An Ovel is different, in that they have the Amod for the year.
FBB, I understand your position, but as a Rebbe of mine used to say, If you want to have the extra Kavana, daven from your seat. Now, in this case, I know that the Davener does tend to daven long, so it is not just on the Yartzeit, and as I said in the previous post, the loss of a parent makes one an Ovel, not a Chazzan. There are many Yartzeits who do not daven, be it because they are not comfortable at the Amud, or feel that they cannot do it. This is also the case if they have Yartzeit on Shabbos. Some shuls will not let them daven on a shabbos, other people are not comfortable davening a shabbos davening as a shliach Tzibbur.
ReplyDeleteI am always nervous about telling a chiyuv he cannot daven, or taking the Amud if there is one in the shul. Were I daven mincha we have a sefardi Ovel, who had demurred from the Amud because the nusach is different, and I still feel funny taking the Amud instead of him.
I have always felt that a chazzan has an overriding obligation to the Tzibbur, and his Kavanah, by definition, has to be socondary to the Tzibbur. I know Tomim Noroim Chazzanim who alway daven much longer from their seats for the Tefillos that they are not leading, so it is safe to assume that they sacrifice something when they are at the Amud, which is why THEY are Merutza L'kol, because they selflessly give up the opportunity to have that better kavana to serve the Tzibbur.
I don't mean this snarkily at all, but I wonder if you should spend "downtime' in shul trying specifically to be Don Lecaf Zechus, or take the extra 6 1/2 minutes to learn something quickly, instead of stewing in your own juices. As someone who goes to shul alot you have the opportunity to use shul not just as a place you go to regularly, but as a place you choose to elevate your everyday life and reactions. So that when you are waiting in SHUL for someone to finish davening it should not be the same feeling as waiting in line at Wal Mart. It may give you less fodder for a blog, but will probably enhance your life.
ReplyDeleterant is a good title for this blog, both the blogmeister and contributing commentators
ReplyDeletewho's the great rov? some rebba?
many of us read this, not just fbb. but your conversations with fbb are long and preachy and you don't post new posts often enough.
ReplyDeletePlease feel free to consider a comment as an additional post, especially if it continues a theme.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I will endeavor to comment shorter and post more.
Preachy? It's really wrong to talk about people when they are essential in the room. Though it's wrong to talk about them when they're not there as well. Basically we need to all love each other always.
ReplyDelete