So ostensibly, the requirement for the hat can be gotten around by wearing a talis over the head, something done every morning by (most) married men in the world (my apologies to those of the German persuasion). Therefore, for a married man to do so at Mincha or Maariv would not be so bad.
However, to have an unmarried boy do this, while preferable to not wearing a hat, is not ideal. I mean, if the boy is not required to daven, just get someone else who is properly attired to do so.
Well, in this case, as we prepared to daven maariv, a boy gets up to daven with NEITHER A HAT NOR JACKET ON. True, he put on a talis, but of course, like any teenage, her started fooling around with it over his head and then off.
Had this been a mizrachi type shul in eretz Yisroel, where hats and jackets are not worn, and do not take away from the sanctity of the shul and the Tefilla, that would have been fine, but this is an Ashkenazic shul in America that HAS A RULE POSTED AS TO THE DRESS CODE. If you are going to post he rules, in order to enforce a decorum in the shul that you obviously know your congregants don't have the sense to understand on their own, you might as well enforce it, otherwise, what is the point of having it?????
I did a little more research into this, and apparently this kid davens often, and only puts on a hat and jacket when the rabbi is there.
The implications of this, and how a shul must repect itself, shall be covered in the next post
It seems like this young fellow has more fear of the Rabbi than of Hakodosh Boruch Hu!
ReplyDeleteokay, I think you just don't like that shul. I can sense it in your comments.
ReplyDeletewhy do you daven there?
I was curious and meandered over here. If the owner of this blog is who I think he is, then all thoughts and speeches of decorum and respect are moot, because he leaves his cell phone/blackberry on while in shul, and will check it while waiting for Chazoras Hashatz to start. So aside from this whole hat thing just being a curmudgeonly old man deciding he doesn't like some thing, and then trying to boost his case by wrapping it in religiosity by claiming it's disrespectful to the shul, it's just hypocritical.
ReplyDeleteI have always had an issue with listing rules and then not enforcing them. This is something that happens in my kids school all the time. If you have no intention of enforcing a rule why bother listing it all. I think this causes undo hardship on those who are actually apt to follow these rules. I have a friend who says you need to have some rules that are allowed to be broken (Because afterall there are those who always feel they have to test their limits and need to break the rules) but I think this just cause them to get away with something yet again and teaches nothing while those who follow the rules are left wondering if it was worth it in the first place. This can all be just a discussion when refering to school rules but when it is transferred to G-ds rules then the importance is that much greater
ReplyDeletethe rules certainly should be enforced at all levels. An umarried boy should not under almost any circumstances where his tallis over his head this is a privilege reserved for married men as indicated in the Talmud. The rules therefore ought to be better clarified.
ReplyDeleteFor FBB's post - The use of a cell phone in shul although perhaps being innappropriate is, as much as talking in shul, day dreaming in shul, not saying all the words etc., a matter of personal responibility and choice. It does not upset the shul and does not actually effect the decorum any more than fervent shuckling in ones seat or loud recitation of quiet parts. Insofar as others are aware of them they may be an annoyance but very very fee people would castigate those engaging in those practices. Now with respect to a ringing cell phone. It is my opinion long under development that the ringing of a cell phone is no more of an annoyance or inappropriate than the bringing of very small children to Shul and the owner of the cell phone is less guilty of being insensitive to others. Let me explain. If a person carries his cell phone to shul usually it will be not because he wants to make or expects to get a call but because he carries his cell phone EVERYWHERE like a pen or a pair of glasses. It is too simple to forget to turn it off or adjust it when you are going into shul. In a perfect world we would all go to shul with ample time to prepare and to make all the proper hachonos but this is not a perfect world and we are not perfect people. When the cell phone does ring the apprpriate owner will quickly and usually embarrasingly turn it off or leave the shul or both. Problem solved and the phone will not ring again. Now, if a very small child comes to shul he/she (he for simplicity) will invariably make noise, either by speaking or dropping things or baning on things etc. it is almost unavoidable. Often these things happen during quiet times or at least that is when they are heard and they DO disturb. The father will very often turn to his child and try to calm and quiet him with soothing or angry words or gestures. It may work... for a short time. The child will almost always start up again, he is a child it is what he does. Now it is time for Shemona Esrai or some other restrictive point in the davening and the child starts in again, maybe runs away from the father who is rooted to his spot. He can't be shut off and he is not removed but generally will remain in shul until the end or it gets so bad people ask him to be removed and then it can really get messy. I wont continue the illustration since this is not my blog but my point is that there is less of an assault on decorum with a cell phone than a child AND to the point in this blog there is no assault on decorum by a cell phone user so being one should not negates ones ability to criticize other troublesome assaults and breaches of decorum.
OK, WOLFMAN, a cell phone ringing or checked in shul is not a decorum issue. Than there is NO logical way that an upturned hat pushed back is a "breach of decorum." As a matter of fact, I think caps and chauffer hats, and other floppy head wear that are not proper fedoras are a breach of decorum. Those people who wear them soil the shul and the davening. They should be shunned from our midst, tsked at, and most importantly they should be JUDGED! HARSHLY! DURING DAVENING! Beacuse really what is more important than that???
ReplyDeleteKepshas for ALL!!!
kepshin not kepsha
ReplyDeleteFBB you are superb at the adage reductio ad absurdum ( or whatever it is) and misapplying it regularly. If you want to wear a hat, wear it, if you want to wear a cap, wear it. But wear it with the proper reverence for where you are. There is nothing wrong with the floppy style hat ( or the person wearing it, keep your personal issues and attacks to yourself please), if it is a hat that is worn out in polite company or specifically for shul.
ReplyDeleteThe issue, which you chose to miss, is that there is a decided lack of respect for shul and davening AS EVIDENCED BY the shlumpy attire that seems to be the standard among too many Yeshiva Bochurim. I feel that if you dedicate your life to Torah, you should at least make an effort to be Medakdek in your approach to Tefilla, and the Mokom Tefilla.
Oh, please. This is ridiculous. Because they don't dress to your specifications, they're not medakdek in tefillah? Maybe they don't spend the whole time stewing about who's davening, what they're wearing, and what tune they're using, and are actually focused on, you know, praying to G-d, who really, may not even care if the brim is up or down, but has made it quite clear about how he feels about judging people.
ReplyDeleteInteresting what we choose to focus on.