Why bother?

Another thing I do not understand is people's need to either run out of shul before the end of davening, or worse, to take off their talis and tefillin during davening.

This was really brought home to me on a recent Shabbos morning when the gentleman next to me took his talis off during HIS musaf shemone esray, and even folded it, all before he finished his tefila! ( he didn't leave, so its not like he was in a hurry or had an emergency). I think it is just a really bad habit that people get into, this one being a little odder than usual.

Although this appears to be a somewhat extreme case, it is really just a natural progression of those who take off their talis and tefillin, first during U'va L'tzion, then ashrei, and eventually, as soon as they finish shemone esray. This seems to be endemic across the spectrum but I find it harder to understand when it happens regularly on a Sunday, or among younger people who aren't in a hurry to catch a bus. I have even seen this done by a chazzan at the omud, which totally defies logic on both halachic and kovod hatzibur grounds.

I think we need to re-assess our approach to tefila, and teach our children the importance of sticking it out to the end, teaching them the halachos, which is clearly not being done, and leading by example, so as not to have a generation that R'L eventualy doesn't even bother in the first place.

Mid day madness

Is it really me, or are people just totally clueless? I am sure that the opinionated masses will set me straight here, but I don't think I am wrong.


First some background. I went to daven Mincha today at an office type place downtown. It is a room dedicated to Mincha and shiurim during the day. There are actually two rooms, a main one, and a smaller one behind it. There is a shiur in each room before Mincha, then the large room davens Sfard and the back room davens Ashkenaz. I was with someone who davens Sfard, so I was planning to do that.


Just as Mincha was about to get started, people were trying to go to the back room, but either they saw that that shiur was running late, or the people in there, very into their shiur, were sort of blocking the door from being opened. I was near this door but wasn't paying that close attention, so I am not sure, but from the sounds of the door slamming shut, I am leaning towards the latter.


So the first Minyan starts, and just as they get to Shmone Esray, I am overcome by this insane ( in retrospect) feeling to ensure that the back room HAS a minyan, since they seemed to be rebuffing people as they came in, and no one went back there once the first minyan started. So I poked my head in, and they gleefully informed me that I was number 10. What these yahoos were planning to do if I had not ventured in, I have no idea.

Well, now I was stuck, but I always like to help out a minyan, with the hope that it will be reciprocated for me if I need one, so i stayed. now you would think that these people, being a mid-day downtown type minyan, might have someplace to go, but they still took teir sweet time starting, and then someone gets up to daven who was clearly unfamiliar with the words, as well as the procedure, such as putting your feet together for kaddish and not leaning on the shtender during davening. I figured he was a chiyuv, so what could I do.

Then Shemone Esray started. There were 9 other people there. It was the noisiest silent shemone esray I have ever heard,with mutterings all about quite loudly. Then the chazzan finished ninth, and we waited for the tenth. And waited. And waited. You , again, might think that someone who KNOWS he's the tenth migh have some derech eretz for the tzibbur and move along a bit, but that would be against everything else that had gone so far.

Then the Chazzan finally got through the Chazoras Hashatz, and after Oleinu DID NOT SAY KADDISH. Which means that this gentleman who is so unfamiliar with the davening justs likes to go up an daven. Well, if it is that important to you, PRACTICE A LITTLE, for goodness sake!

I finally finished about 5 minutes after the other minyan, and felt that I had to share this. Where is the derech eretz to a Tzibbur, that one person alone is not so important that everything revolves around them?

I wish I were wrong here

It's not always good to be right.

I have been saying for years that when a shliach Tzibur has no regard for his Tziburn they will leave. Where I daven one of the chiyuvim takes much longer than the others. He also has a decided disregard for the schedule that the minyonim are supposed to follow.

(As an aside, why is it that when someone is ahead of the schedules, people feel they can say something, but when someone consistently is behind, nothing is done? Maybe the story here is the result)

So this chiyuv is usually the shliach Tzibur at this particular minyan, that is between 2 other minyanim. Today I went to daven at this particular minyan and two things were apparent right away. One, this chiyuv was not there, and two, neither were 10 people. There were only six people there, fifteen minutes after the starting time.

I strongly believe that the reason why this minyan did not happen today is because people are either embarrassed or uncomfortable telling a guy he is going to slowly (yeshivish indoctrination perhaps?) But they nevertheless don't want to be held captive by someone who feels his tefila is so important that he can daven 15% longer than everyone else, so they simply decided not to show up.

Maybe someone should say something, because not having minyonim for called times is not good for a shul as a whole.

Who is watching the store?

I have some issues with certain collectors. Most are fine and appropriate, but the minority give the others a bad name and reputation.

We are told to be courteous and compassionate to those collecting Tzedoko, but some of them really make it difficult. Like the ones who collect from Borchu to Shemone Esrei, and even bother people in the middle of Shema, or those who approach the Shliach Tzibbur, which is never appropriate, as he is busy. ( Sometimes even in the middle of Chazoras HaShatz, which is extreme, but it has happened).

I assume these people are all frum and daven themselves, why can't they have a sensitivity to the people they are collecting from as well. Some shuls will put limits on when collecting is allowed, and although it might sound small minded, it is usually done after collectors have abused the good intentions of the Congregation.

Another thing I find somewhat irritating is the total lack of recognition on the part of the collectors. I recognize the two gentlemen who come every Friday, and the man who comes Thursday morning with his sign, my question is, if I give them money, and then move over a row, they ask me again, as if they have never seen me before! This happens mostly at the end of davening, when people are finishing, and then leaving, and will be approached by the same person two or three times. We are not just "marks" and it is sad to realize that we are perceived as such.

However, what I saw this morning makes everything else pale by comparison. First, a little background. I live within walking distance of the shul, and by virtue of that, I am in the "parking zone" where people will park for davening or events in the shul. I don't have a big problem with it, but some of the neighbors do.

Well, this morning as davening was finishing, and elderly ( white haired) gentleman came into shul with a younger man, both collecting. I recognized them, as my shul is obviously on their route. They walked out just ahead of me and got into their minivan, which had a handicapped sticker hanging from the window. ( I will be Don L'chav ZS'chus here and assume some other use of the car involves a handicapped person, but it surely wasn't either of the two collectors.)

They were parked across the street from the shul, on the side no one is supposed to park on, and no other cars were there. This is excusable, I guess, as there are no signs posted, and they are not from the neighborhood. What disturbed me the most is that the car was parked 3/4 of the way on my neighbor's grass. The grass is very soft now, and he happens to take care of his lawn.

Then it got worse. The car started to make a K-turn, but instead of doing the bulk of the turn on the pavement of the street, the driver ( who was the younger collector) backs up, perhaps ten feet onto the lawn that they were already significantly on top of, and turns around.

I was appalled that someone could have such little regard for someone else's property to just drive up and about on the lawn. I don't see how someone like that can be trusted with the public's money ( assuming they are collecting for someone else) if they so carelessly destroy property that doesn't belong to them.

I don't think I will be giving them any more money in the future.

hypocrite or realist?

A guy goes into a shul where he davens occasionally. He does not have a hat, as he is just coming home from work. This person usually wears a head covering of some kind ( other than a yarmulke, of course) but if he finds it convenient to daven, and does not have a hat, as when coming home from work, he will daven without one.

In this shul, they are not makpid on hats. Not for the Shliach Tzibbur, nor amongst the congregants. It is that type of shul. They ask this gentleman to daven at the Amud. He asks if they wear a talis for Ma''ariv ( he hasn't davened Ma'ariv there in a long time), thinking that then he can cover his head, because even though he will daven in shul without a hat, he isn't totally comfortable with the idea of davening at the Amud without it. he is told they don't wear taleisim. So he goes and davens anyhow.


The person is me. Does that make me a hypocrite?

STILL the most important person in the room

You will not believe this.

The person who had Yartzeit last week had it again this week. Apparently, his parents passed on relatively close to each other. I was not aware of this, and thought that he was just at the Amud.

Since I never said anything last time, this time was even worse, but at least I got a good view of what a Rov is supposed to be. Here are the details.

The Rov was davening slower than the Tzibbur, and did not want to hold up the minyan, so at Shema, he motioned the, I can't even call him a Shliach Tzibbur or Chazzan, we shall call him the Davener, to go ahead.

The minyan started Shemone Esrai a full TWO MINUTES before the Rov. The Rov, still not wanting to hold up the minyan, davened faster than usual. However, the Davener WAS STILL NOT DONE with his Shemone Esrai after six and one half minutes, while the Rov finished HIS shemone Esrai faster. So we had to wait for the Davener to finally finish his Tefilla, which took another 1/2 a minute.

Needless to say, I was quite upset with the whole scenario, and was going to speak to the Davener. Even though the conversation might have destroyed my relationship with him, I felt that for Chovod HaRav I really had no choice.

(I also felt I had no choice because over Shabbos, I was away, and the Ovel there davened longer than the Rov, and I said to my host that someone should talk to him and tell him how wrong he is, so I didn't want to be a hypocrite in my own shul)

However, before I spoke to this guy, I decided to speak to the Rov first. He informed me that in fact, the Davener DID have Yartzeit for a parent, and that it doesn't happen that often ( that people daven longer, not him having Yartzeit, which only happens twice a year), and that in this situation, it would be best if I just let in ride and not say anything.

I acquiesced to the wishes of the Rov, and have let the matter drop ( in shul, not here, though). But what I will take away from this whole story is that this Rov (1) understands that the Tzibbur is an entity that must be taken into account during davening. (2) the Rov, with all his Kavana, is ALWAYS cognizant of the needs of the Tzibbur, and his position as the rightful most important person in the room, (3) That he is not makpid on his kovod, which is appropriate for a Talmud Chachom, but still incumbent upon us to be makpid for him, and (4) he is a true Ohaiv Sholom and does not want, or to be the cause of, makloches in his shul.

Many others can learn from him, Baal Habatim, certainly Baalei Tefilla, and Rabbonim as well.

Who is the most important person in the room?

A friend of mine never davens, even when he has yartzeit. His line is "my father made me an orphan, not a chazzan".

Furthermore, we are constantly bemoaning the lack of stature of our current leaders. My main opinion on that is for another post, but what is the relevance of the two points here?

I shall explain.

I was in shul this morning with a yartzeit davening. Sure enough, at the end of shemone esrai, the Rabbi finished significantly ( more than 1/2 a minute, at least) before the shliach Tzibbur. I pretty much figured that it would happen, having seen this person daven before, but I hoped that the basic understanding of both Tircha D'tzibura, as well as Kovod HoRav might kick in. Alas, I was disappointed.

This behavior could be excused in the case of someone who only davens on a Yartzeit, which is a couple of times a year. However, this becomes a bigger problem when a regular Baal Tefilla or Ovel davens. So why is it that so many people don't understand this basic problem? that they feel that they are the most important person in the room? That the entire minyan is subject to their wonderul Kavanah? I just don't get it.

I feel ( perhaps it is my background, that puts less stock in having a yartzeit or ovel daven) that is someone is incapable of finishing within the time limits set by the Rov finishing, or the majority of the Tzibbur, then they should forgo being the Shliach Tzibbur at that minyan or find another shul to daven for that Tefilla ( which raises a whole other issue about Omud hopping, but again, that is for another post)

How can we then wonder why are Rabbonim are not afforded the respect that they deserve if we don't insist on giving it to them? This problem of davening longer than a Rov is then compounded by the entire Tzibbur not telling off the baal Tefilo, and the gabbaim putting such a person up to daven again. The problem then becomes one of enormous proportions, as our children see this and think it is OK not to stand up for the Kovod of a Rov.


When I think about this, the future scares me.

Wretched Excess Indeed

I saw a Tzedoko flyer in shul this shabbos for hachnosas orchim for lizenz. I am probably spelling it wrong, but it is the city in europe where people go on pilgrimage to daven at the kever of a godol.

The purpose of this flyer seemed to be to raise (tzedoko) money for the building of a hotel for those fortunate to be able to afford, in both money AND time, this truly superfluous trip.

I mean, there are gedolim here, both living and living in the olam haemes, that people can go do for brochos and needed yeshuos. So the trip to europe has to be deemed a vacation, as well as a luxury.

What struck me as completely outrageous about this flyer (which admittedly wasn't directed at me, since it was almost exclusively in Yiddish) was that they were looking to raise funds for what appeared to be the building of a hotel!

Even if they were raising money for food for the people that showed up, that would strain credibility, as the people going should be able to pay their own way, but to as people to subsidize a private, (what should be) for profit venture, in the name of tzedoko is truly beyond belief.

As one friend of mine put it, it is just the continuation of the wretched excess that has become the norm in our life.

I agree.

Hats off to Decorum II

As promised, here is part two, and this problem is even worse. I davened recently in a beautifully built new shul. They actually have rules posted on the Amud as to what the chazzan has to wear, and how to pronounce the words. ( nothing on getting them right, just which Ivrah to use). One of the requirements is a jacket and hat.


So ostensibly, the requirement for the hat can be gotten around by wearing a talis over the head, something done every morning by (most) married men in the world (my apologies to those of the German persuasion). Therefore, for a married man to do so at Mincha or Maariv would not be so bad.


However, to have an unmarried boy do this, while preferable to not wearing a hat, is not ideal. I mean, if the boy is not required to daven, just get someone else who is properly attired to do so.


Well, in this case, as we prepared to daven maariv, a boy gets up to daven with NEITHER A HAT NOR JACKET ON. True, he put on a talis, but of course, like any teenage, her started fooling around with it over his head and then off.


Had this been a mizrachi type shul in eretz Yisroel, where hats and jackets are not worn, and do not take away from the sanctity of the shul and the Tefilla, that would have been fine, but this is an Ashkenazic shul in America that HAS A RULE POSTED AS TO THE DRESS CODE. If you are going to post he rules, in order to enforce a decorum in the shul that you obviously know your congregants don't have the sense to understand on their own, you might as well enforce it, otherwise, what is the point of having it?????

I did a little more research into this, and apparently this kid davens often, and only puts on a hat and jacket when the rabbi is there.

The implications of this, and how a shul must repect itself, shall be covered in the next post

Hats off to decorum

You know, it isn't all about the Bochurim not having a clue. Unfortunately, the basis for their actions comes from parents, teachers and mentors, as well as a general lack of concern from the masses. let me explain.

The issue of young men wearing their hats back with the brims up is one that gets my goat for some reason. I think it has to do with the fact that when I was a kid growing up, out of respect one wore his hat forward with the brim down. After shul, when walking on a hot day, the hat might be pushed back a bit, but that was all. You never saw anyone walking with their brims up.

Now you go into shuls and you see some, not all, Rebbeim, Rishei Yeshiva and Yeshiveshe Youngeliet with their hats back. Sometimes you even see some Balle Battishe men who want to identify with the youth doing the same. I think they look ridiculous and childish as well, but the real point it, it s a lack of respect for the shul, the community, and themselves.

If you wear a uniform, wear it well and wear it proudly. an untucked white shirt sort of defeats the purpose, and a hat at a jaunty angle, with an unkempt undressed look does no good for the image or the persona you are trying to impart or emulate. I think it is terrible that this has been allowed to go on.

An even bigger problem is when the hats are worn this way at the Amud, then it is an unforgivable offense to the shul, Tzibbur and the One you are davening in front of. A person would not go into his boss looking unkempt like that, much less a person in power, so why do these people feel that they can do it in front of G-d?

In my perfect world, these kids ( and adults) would not be allowed to lead. Once I told a kid to put his brim down. He refused. I have never asked him to daven again.

However, this problem has a flip side as well, and that shall be addressed in our next post.

Let us pray ( correctly)

So let us begin. I have lots to say. First I shall go through some of my pet peeves that have annoyed me for a long time and need to be addressed. Most of my issues involve davening, where we spend quite a bit of time.

The shul is a focal point in all our lives, and unless you are the type of person who does not want to be accountable to anyone or anyplace and makes sure never to daven 2 consecutive tefillos in the same place, you can understand this position. The basic premise that I don't understand is how we can shukle with apparent great kavana, without the slightest concept of halachos, especially as they pertain to issues exlusive to davening, like T'fila B'tzibbur, Tircha D'zibura, Halochos of Shemone Esray, Kedusha and Kaddish. I feel that more time should be spent understanding Peirosh Hamilos and the aforementioned halochos instead of "Putting on a Show".

I hope that this shows the direction we shall be taking in the future.

Welcome Yeshiva World News readers

There are many things in the Yeshiva world, and as addressed by yeshiva News World and Vos Iz Nayis that need addressing from a different, coherent and intelligent point of view (along with a wee bit of vitriol) . I will attempt to address them here. Thank you for visiting and keep coming back.